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Why are some people against purchasing SP?

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Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.07 16:08:00 - [1] Originally by: Mark Sherlock Originally by: J Kunjeh Originally by: Mark Sherlock Originally by: Lady Spank Buying a character is not the same as buying SP. I just got a 53m SP character for under $300. RL cash? Isn't that against the TOS/EULA? I thought characters could only be sold for ISK? Admittedly, I don't claim to know much about it as I've never considered it myself, so I could be wrong. You can buy PLEX through CCP, which I did. Sell that PLEX to contracts in mass to generate isk, which i did. Find a tailored character with the skills you want trained and nothing more and pruchase it with ISK, which i did. You sold plex on contact? Wow what a maroon. So not only are you too stupid to see the difference between selling a GTC for ISK to buy a character that was not customized to your perfect specifications (you might have found one that was close but it's not the same) and just buying SP outright but you also let someone rip you off in the process. LOL. The only reason people would buy a plex off contract is if they are trying to get it for cheaper than they could on the market. The point is that the old plex system in no way shape or form bypasses any existing game mechanics. Someone had to spend the time training that character they had to earn the isk to buy the skill books they had to wait the years it took to acquire all those skillpoints. The person you sold the plex too still had to earn the isk to buy them. It's simple Old Plex system sans Aurum = did not bypass game mechanics and time investment. New plex system with Aurum would bypass game mechanics. There is a world of difference may seem subtle but as Soundwave said the devil is in the details.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.07 17:38:00 - [2] Originally by: Mark Sherlock I weighed selling them for a higher return. Time has a currency value associated to it in my opinion. Immediate return at a cost was more preferable to spending time and effort for a higher return. You can call my a maroon(?), but I was totally saticfied with my results. There are buy orders on the market as well you know and I'd wager real money that the person you contracted to were buying under that otherwise they are the chump. I don't pay money to train my characters I pay money to play the game and I happen to train while doing that. Buying SP bypasses the whole playing the game thing. I'm pretty sure the intention of the character bazaar wasn't for people to be able to buy them for real world cash and I suspect that the bulk of the market is actually people who have played wanting to change focus or try something new so they earn the isk by playing the game then use said isk to buy a trained character. So an industrialist who has made a killing selling marauders and then decides they want to PVP looks at the character bazaar and buys a PVP spec'd character. While the plex system can be used to convert real life cash into isk to buy said characters that's not it's only use. Of course you still ignore the whole buying SP BYPASSES GAME MECHANICS thing. Personally I think a newby spending real life cash on a pre-existing character is stupid. I mean why play the damned game at all at that point. To make it even more stupid you're not going to be as invested in the game and the character so you're far less likely to stick around for any substantial length of time and you just blew a load of cash on a game you won't be playing. But hey that's you're choice and as long as you do it through the character bazaar you aren't affecting my game. I can still get a decent guess on how many sp you have so I'll have some idea of how dangerous your character might be. Personally I find that a significant portion of the satisfaction in playing the game comes from the waiting to unlock abilities. The wait adds to the feeling of accomplishment once it completes. It also puts consequences on ones training decisions. You have to make choices of what to prioritize when one decides to train one thing you automatically have to defer training another. For instance my goal for this character is to be PVP capable (full T2 fitting) in every sub-cap ship in the game sans Black Ops (will do eventually but I consider that more a part of eventual cap training. Currently I can fly all T1 ships save for the tier 2 and 3 Amarr as far as weapon systems go I still have to finish training large lasers to T2 and all missile skills to the same. I have to make choices on which to train when, by training to fly Amarr BS and use large T2 lasers I'm putting off training up my missile skills, the 30 days I spent training logi 5 delayed everything else. So the choices have rewards and consequences. When I spent a year on int/mem skills I put off T2 ships and weapons. Yeah it was annoying at the time that was the cost, the reward was that when I finished it and switched to per/will I was able to train the ship/weapon skill and just start flying them while my buddy who started playing at the same time and trained more willy nilly is locked out of certain ship types due to lacking pre-reqs. You are bypassing that portion of the game when you buy a character but at least when you do it through the bazaar someone had to make those choices and you are stuck with the consequences of those choices. Buying SP completely removes all the consequences. EVE without consequence isn't EVE anymore it's just another old ass game with a **** poor UI.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.07 18:28:00 - [3] Originally by: Mark Sherlock Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Mark Sherlock I didn't spend $400 to train my character, I spent $200. If you were not able to buy SP, I would have spent $400 in subscription fees to train my character. Here I am with a character with equal to that, yet I spent $200. You spent $200 on top of the monies someone already spent on that char, that's not a loss but a gain. Again, please point to the loss of revenue, so far you haven't. You would't consider the $200 I personally saved, money CCP will not see, in training time a loss? Repeating this for the third time now, It cost him/her $400 to train 53m sp, cost me 200$ to train 53m sp. Now, it would have cost me $400 to train if I didn't just straight up buy the SP and choose to train it instead. $200 =/= $400 last time I checked. No wonder you got scammed you don't understand basic math. As far as CCP is concerned they got all $600 plus you are now on the hook for subscription fees for however long you decide to pay. Those plex you bought will be used by someone who may have stopped playing do to lack of real life money so they are winners. The player you gave the ISKies to can now turn around and use said isk to buy shinnies or another character to play this after having had the ability to play said character for the last 3 years. You meanwhile are stuck with what ever name the creator decided to give the purchased toon as well as any reputation and faction standings (or lack there of) that the original player made. If the character was used as a spy good luck getting into a player corporation. Oh and I find the idea that you managed to buy a 53mil SP pilot for $200 worth of plex completely non-credible. At 400 mil per plex that's only 5.2bil isk and from looking through the board that's less than half what characters with that level of SP are going for. So you either got a really good deal, there was something wrong with the character or you are exaggerating(lying) somewhere.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.07 18:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Mark Sherlock More stuff and nonsense Hey you want to skip the playing the game part by buying an existing character that's your choice. I think you are losing out on part of the experience and satisfaction of playing but to each their own. I played through it and now having played through the "gimp" mode as you call it and reaching the other side I have a much better understanding of what skills do what in the game, Having had to compensate with low SP I learned player skills that remain with me now that I'm no longer on the low SP side of the divide. Another thing you might not have considered is that players of equivalent experience against whom you'd have a better chance in battle will tend to avoid engaging you while those who are willing to do so will generally have much more actual player experience. I'd be real curious to see the combat record of this purchased toon to see just how much reading wiki's and guides has helped you overcome people with real in game knowledge. All that said it still doesn't make buying a character from the bazaar the equivalent of outright purchasing SP directly from CCP for cash.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.07 19:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Mark Sherlock Edited by: Mark Sherlock on 07/07/2011 19:24:24 Originally by: Anon Magnus Hypocritical or not, when it comes to buying skill points added on top of the already existing PLEXà I want to scream ôthis far and NO MORE.ö It feels like there is already too much real world money affecting the game and injecting more into my virtual environment tanks the experience of actually playing and accomplishing goals. IÆd compare it to the difference between making out with a woman that actually likes you and another thatÆll only do it for money. I was actually quite amazed I could do this. Off topic, but I just got owned by some dude in a frig with my T2 fitted BS, so I'm going to buy a titan account. I hear those are so powerful you cant even bring them into low sec. 8/10 I think I've been trolled. I'd have scored it higher but you could have milked this much further if you'd not jumped the shark here.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.07 21:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Yseri Edited by: Yseri on 07/07/2011 21:02:52 Olleybear, we're not talking about buying everything for money, just SP. Right now the noob you're talking about has a year of watching the blue bar before getting skilled enough to avoid being blown up all the time. Another year if he wants to start manufacturing. And another if he decides to do missions. And so on... You aren't doing anything that every player before you didn't. In fact you're doing it faster since you start off with Max learning skills to begin with giving you an extra 11 in attributes that older players didn't have.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.08 14:24:00 - [7] Edited by: Skex Relbore on 08/07/2011 14:24:16 Originally by: Maverick2011 Originally by: White Tree So how many of you equate the buying of characters with the buying of SP, and if you do compare them on the same level, then do you then think the idea of buying SP is ok? I'm just curious. Its not a matter if its ok or not. it exists already with some camouflage that confounds the minds of idiots. But its there already. PLEX is both RMT and instant gratification that people loathe here. But of course, since its allowed they use it without ever thinking twice. Still defeats any sort of argument against pay to win. PLEX must be the reason CCP felt so confident about introducing MT to game. They knew players embraced that already through PLEX even if indirectly. You are an idiot. It has been spelled out in excruciating detail how the character bazaar is not the same as buying SP for cash. If you still fail to understand then it's not a problem with the arguments but with your ability to process information. Just how much is CCP paying you people to try and push this nonsense anyway? This looks for all the world like a PR campaign to me. Well it won't work, You can claim that selling a plex for isk and using that isk to buy a character from the bazaar is the same as buying SP directly from SP until the sun burns out and it won't make that argument right. The point remains that under the current system no game mechanics are by passed and all the SP and ISK involved are generated over time by normal game play. Selling SP directly for cash does bypass said game play/ Because in one case nothing is added into the game world that wasn't already there and in the other something is. And that's a world of difference.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.08 15:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Maverick2011 Who gives a ** of your **** world of difference, learn to read: He bought PLEX He sold for ISK He bought SP with ISK You cant understand three lines, you are an idiot, go back to your delusional world of truth while facts dominate the game. A newbie starting with 53million sp. That's what happened. The name of the character, the reputation its all imbecile arguments as he can stay in a NPC corp and solo play using that to boost other accounts fast. If you don't like it whatever. He just did it against you liking or not. Ok lets break it down for you.. He bought a plex true. He sold plex for isk true. He used isk to buy SP... oh wait..NOT TRUE. What he did was that he used that ISK to buy a character, and is stuck with what ever limitations that may be involved in using that character regarding reputation standings etc. that there are ways to use that character that work around said limitation does not remove said limitation. A character that was built with SP purchased and spawned out of a cash shop would not have to work around those disadvantages. It also ignores the fact that it still took someone time to generate those SP through normal game mechanics and using real time, Which means that the supply is limited to what is available on the market which means that the buyer will have to make trade offs and will in general not get the "perfect" character. It also means that when the FOTM changes you won't automatically be able to just go out and grab a character that fits that flavor because the characters on the market will have what ever skills the person building it thought would be useful based on old info. The differences between buying a character and buying SP directly for cash are far from trivial and can not be dismissed by simply mislabeling the steps in the existing process.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.08 15:13:00 - [9] Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby Originally by: Skex Relbore Just how much is CCP paying you people to try and push this nonsense anyway? Geez that line is getting lame already. So is the "You must be a CCP alt" Think up some new insults. Feel free to use them on me. But I said new, not the same old Troll, Idiot, Clueless, etc, etc... Old or not this looks like a PR campaign to me. Multiple new characters with little to no in game history pushing an idea that just happens to coincide with CCP's desire to push/defend their cash shop. This is a softening up campaign imo. People paid to pass misleading nonsense to desensitize the games population to an an unpopular idea and make it palpable. Undoubtedly there are some misguided idiots in here who genuinely buy into this nonsense but equally undoubtedly are the paid shills pushing this crap as their job.

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